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Dr. McDonald has devoted several years of near full-time study to the subject.

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His interviewer confirmed that all major participants who either officially or independently investigated

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certain aspects of the UFO problem is one of the most sought after speakers.

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He found that out in trying to line him up for here, and he traveled extensively in pursuit of his studies

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and investigating and lecturing on the subject.

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His present position is that of Senior Physicist, Institute of Atmospheric Physics,

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and Professor of Department of Meteorology, University of Arizona, Tucson.

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His principal research interest is Atmospheric Physics.

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His educational background includes a Bachelor of Arts degree in Chemistry, University of Omaha, 1942,

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Master of Science, Degree in Meteorology, Master's in Institute of Technology, 1945,

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and a Doctor of Philosophy, Degree in Physics, Iowa State University, 1951.

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He joined the University of Arizona staff in 1984, coming to university from the University of Chicago,

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where he was on Todd's physics project there as a research physicist.

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Prior to that, he was assistant professor of physics, Iowa State University,

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and during the World War II, he was member of Naval Intelligence.

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His professional affiliations include American Meteorological Society, American Geophysical Union,

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the Royal Meteorological Society, American Association for the Advancement of Science, and Sigma Chi.

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His professional activities that the doctors include is a member of the National Science Foundation

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advisory panel on Forexpandetic Sciences, a member of the advisory panel for the U.S. Navy SF Project called Storm Fury.

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He's a member of the National Academy of Sciences panel on Weather and Climate Modification,

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and a member of the American Meteorological Society Publication Commission.

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Dr. McDonald will speak to us for about 45 minutes and then has the time to answer any questions that you might have on your mind.

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I'd like to mention also that an abstract of his paper will be mailed to me and mailed to each of you that are interested if you will contact me.

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With that, it is a pleasure to introduce our distinguished lecturer, Dr. McDonald.

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Dr. McDonald, I'm very pleased to be here to talk to you in this AIAA section.

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I'm getting around to a lot of your fellow members this year,

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and I regard you as a professional audience as in many ways one of the most appropriate professional societies to before whom one might discuss this U.S. problem for reasons that will become clearer a little bit later.

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I, as Jean pointed out, have been pursuing this problem very intensively for so much more than a couple of years.

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My impression is 180 degrees opposite to Dr. Condon instead of agreeing with him in his recently released report, which is published by the way in a People Back version if you haven't seen it, Matt and Bucks.

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He recommends that the matter should be dropped, that Project New Books should perhaps be.

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There's nothing inside of the significance, even urges that school teachers said they're the great students from reading books on U.S.

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I say conversely that after interviewing about 500 witnesses here in some foreign areas, talking to all of the Air Force, so people who have anything to do with the problem,

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checking many, many cases that I think it may be one of the most important scientific problems before us.

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And that's a slight disagreement, as you can speak. So we have something to keep the pot in mind.

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Let me quickly summarize some of the main points of my position so you see where I stand.

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Then let me turn to the Condon Report.

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Initially, the title that I suggested for my talk was the impact of the UFO problem on the National Space Program, and I believe it will have such an impact.

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And I attended that title to a Descending View of the Condon Report shortly after I saw the Condon Report, whose witness and whose low scientific caliber is, in my opinion, sort of a scientific scandal.

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The total number of reports of observations by credible witnesses, reliable persons, of structured objects, craft-like or machine-like objects that appear to be fabricated, not fuzzy lobs of light.

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The total number of reliable reports of structured objects that are now on record from all parts of the world are orders of magnitude too numerous to casually ignore the UFO problem any longer.

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The second main point I'd make is that global point that I inserted a moment ago.

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There is no evidence that this is, as one Englishman said, a California phenomenon.

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There is no reason to agree with the joke in skeptic literature who said this America's answer to the Loch Ness Monster, because there are just as many sightings in England per square mile and probably more.

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The largest wave of sightings that ever occurred, and I've talked to a Frenchman and investigated these, occurred in France in 1954.

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I have been in Australia, Tasmania, and New Zealand. I've interviewed about 75 or 80 witnesses.

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There is no difference between what the Australians in the outback are seeing versus what Iowa farmers are seeing.

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It is a global problem. South America, an arctic Greenland Eskimo, is South American Indians, French peasants, and so on.

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Third main point, despite many efforts to explain it in conventional terms, to explain the puzzling cases.

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I was a little bit of a semantic business here, but there are so many puzzling cases that have defined explanations for 20 years that, again, one can't put the problem aside.

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There are far, far more cases that have been explained, and there is no dispute at all between anyone who has ever studied the problem seriously that a majority of raw, post-UFO reports, unquote, are misidentifications of lights in the sky, Venus, fireballs above all, aircraft with probe lights, and lots of other things.

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The bulk of reports are not significant, but one doesn't ignore a whole problem on the score that there is a lot of noise mixed in with a signal.

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You try to integrate to pick out the signal.

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The fourth point is that there has been no study in depth anywhere in the world of this problem, and that includes the 20 years of effort on the part of the United States Air Force, and I'll return to that point shortly.

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Public, fifth point, public, Congress, scientific community, the others are doing the like have accepted with few exceptions the Air Force claims that Blue Book was pursuing the problem, finding nothing, nothing that devised scientific explanation.

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Sixth point is that although the Air Force has claimed that that Blue Book, Project Blue Book undertaking, was of a scientific nature, and although they have frequently asserted in past releases from the Pentagon that the Air Force was using the best scientific talents available to it,

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I stand here able to defend hours on length if you want to listen the contention that that is utter eyewash. There has not been any application of the substantial scientific talent available to the United States Air Force, say Air Force Cambered Research Labs and Air Weather Service and groups like that on this problem.

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It's over ego press people at Sathaly who are generating that kind of very unfortunately misleading information. If we had not all been told collectively that the Air Force was really digging into this and finding nothing, there would have been scientists long ago who would have closed this problem, but everybody believed as I did that the Air Force must mean what it has said.

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But that is completely wrong. I could as I say talk for quite a long number of hours on specific bits and evidence cases, testing to the superficial and incompetent manner in which the Air Force has handled its UFO investigations in the last 15 years.

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Now one has to take a long time going into the history. You have to separate very carefully the pre-1953 Air Force investigations from the post-1953 and the turning point was a CIA convened panel, the Robertson panel.

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Don't get all excited about the Colk and Dagger stuff. I don't think the CIA cares at all about the UFOs. Their concern at that time was real, primarily because of the many fast radar, fast track radar cases already on record by 1953.

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They convened this panel of quite eminent scientists who after three or four days of looking at about 15 or 20 cases decided there was nothing to it.

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And that was when the thing began really to go downhill after having reached a high water mark in 1952 with fairly serious investigations by then rather active group headed particularly by Captain Ruppelt whose book is one of the better sources of information on the whole problem.

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We have had scientific advice given to the Air Force. They have repeatedly gotten puzzled about their cases. They have gone into the scientific community and repeatedly beginning with Irving Langier in 1948 through on what appears to be about a half a day investigation told the Air Force to forget it.

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Then the Rayon Corporation, then some one or two professors from MIT, then the Robertson panel of very good men, Louis-Louis Alvarez, the Nobelist last year, was one of five members.

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Robertson was a relativist from Caltech. Burke Newell was a member of the panel from good men. Then came the Tell Memorial Institute. You may think that the $500,000 spent recently with the Canon Committee as the first substantial outside expenditure.

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$400,000 was spent with the Tell Memorial Institute producing an almost useless document. The Blue Book Report 14. Again, bad advice.

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Write down the history of the whole project through their consultationships, advisory panels and so on. Again and again, you look back and you find the Air Force has been given what can only be described as snap judgments, not based on getting out and interviewing lots of witnesses, but just probably nothing.

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Two of this. People see things. There are things in the atmosphere we don't know. That advice has continued to turn the dial down on Air Force interest and that is what I regard as the reason for failure of Air Force to respond to the many intra-air force cases, stunning cases on record in the project of Blue Book files at Bryce Patterson.

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I've been up there three times. You can imagine. They, in principle, excited against in some of these cases, but they're all just explained away as problem-a-burge, possible aircraft, maybe balloons and so on.

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And then a very small number that they finally concede or unidentify. Why hasn't the Air Force responded to that? Some people insist. It's CIA conspiracy at high levels. They know all about these. There's hypothesis runs.

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I'm not talking about nuts. I'm talking about serious investigators, particularly Major Keough of NYCAP, who's indeed a very serious investigator of this problem, but I believe he has failed to, his background is not such that he could sense the impact of all that scientific advice, negative scientific advice on the problem.

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And his contention that the CIA must know that these are extraterrestrial and is keeping this from the public by design, perhaps even keeping Air Force from somewhat of a dark. I reject that hypothesis, not casually, but after a great deal of thought.

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And I think it's all this bad scientific advice that has done it. And now comes the Cunningham Report as the largest single piece of bad scientific advice that I have yet had a chance to look at in this problem.

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And the list you're brought by the Cunningham Report is is compounded by the strong endorsement given to it last month by the National Academy of Science. If you look at this month's Academy News Report, I just have a Xerox over here, you will find a final statement on the Academy text of this endorsement.

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And they're really more negative than Condon himself, if anything. I say that is going to come on the loose on 2101 Constitution Avenue Northwest and it'll be a check on the Academy will be have very great difficulty chasing off the Academy steps.

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That's a prediction which you can put me down for.

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The damage I think is greatly compounded by the strong Academy recommendations. Who did this? Who was it? I haven't remembered the Academy. Well, no.

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11 Academy members and this is a rare panel when you get all Academy full Academy members on a panel.

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I'm on a National Academy panel, but I'm not a member of the Academy myself.

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But all the members of this 119 committee are full Academy members and I'm very prestigious that has great killing power.

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The editors read the New York Times read the Washington Star, the star, for example, is certainly charming editorial in the last month about the terrific at all that nonsense.

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The star said that now we won't hear anymore about UFOs except from those few borderline dailies who will never shut up.

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I understand when the Academy comes down with all that approval. That's all you can expect.

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Well, I believe that with the Academy endorsement of the current report and all of the editorial nodding of heads that no progress will come now until adequate scientific of the common report is introduced into scientific channels.

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And that's where all of my effort is going. And that's why I change my topic to primary emphasis on the common report.

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The AIAA, as some of you may know, has appointed a U.S. O. Subcommittee headed by Dr. Yoke Kutner at ESSA, about 10 or 11 members.

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And in the December issue of your journal, they would make their first brief report.

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And their recommendation, if you read it, is cautious and reserved by, again, 180 degrees away from the common recommendations.

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The Kutner committee points out that it has not received adequate quantitative attention and it warrants more attention from AIAA and they are giving it more attention.

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And I talked with the two of the members, including Kutner, just last week in Washington, and they're preparing for AIAA journal preparation, a kind of a book review of this report.

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And I find they are not entirely in disagreement with me by any means.

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Well, now the common report. Why is it that I have such strong, and you don't have to say again that those were strong objections, as I put on record with you, about this common report?

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I don't think the kind of comments that I and AIAA are at all typical of one scientist describing another piece of scientific work.

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By no means do I go around making statements like that on a casual basis.

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But I'm prepared to send those strong words.

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First of all, there are only, in this report, there are only 90 cases discussed, in anything like a detailed law.

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That might seem to you like a lot of cases, but that does not drop in the bucket.

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The book has 12,000 cases on file. I have checked several hundred on a two-pronged basis.

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I did not have half a million dollars to do it, but I've managed in the about the same time as the common committee was in adjustments to check several hundred cases.

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So there is one objection right off about only 90 cases.

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Now the second, I'm going to just take all these main points and then get down to some details.

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There are many weak or curvil cases of such a relevance.

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I would never waste any time on the Hulks balloon cases or somebody saying a meteor, one or two outright crackpot cases.

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Now these dilute that sample of 90 in an undesirable way.

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Common and group, and as a group, sort of looked only at the really puzzling cases because that was their charge.

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Let's find adequate scientific explanations for the real puzzlers, the classic cases.

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And that leaves me to my third main point. Some of the most puzzling classics of the U.S. old history are conspicuously absent from that sample of 90.

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In fact, there are some few there that you can take these off on your hands and toes very quickly.

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Very few are the really famous classics.

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Furthermore, there are cases that they did investigate, which are not in there and should be.

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And I think I'll tell you about one because it's not so far away from here.

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Redmond, California, February 4th of this last year, 1968.

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I'll return to that in a moment.

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There are going to be Colorado investigators who are on the case.

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They got into general, it is not there.

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I and others, three professors at the University of Redmond, regard that as quite a significant case.

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Let me come back to that a bit later.

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There are other examples of missing cases.

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It's better to film there and this is really the crux of the whole thing.

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There is a great deal of specious argumentation, weak, dubious argumentation.

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And to defend that, you definitely have to get down to cases by just passing over that as a major point.

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But let me come back to examples.

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First, there is a great deal of incomplete reporting of cases.

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Cases about which I have a big deal of knowledge where I have also investigated in some cases and interviewed more witnesses than they have.

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That was an Massachusetts case, a very interesting Air Force B-47 case that I'll tell you about.

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They, my mom and I tell the reader all the relevant facts.

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And I don't know whether they just got tired or what is involved.

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But anyway, you do not get by any means the full flavor of many of those cases in there.

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Incomplete case reporting.

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In some cases, borders on misrepresentation of the facts.

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There's a great deal of irrelevant padding that I count the case counter indicates about a per this deal with UFO cases.

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There are about two thirds of various kinds of sort of secondary.

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Some of it makes good rating.

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But a great deal of it is just like somebody writing a text to a new apology or something that's not something kind of a book that might sell.

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And I guess it's selling.

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But that wasn't the problem.

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The problem was the clause with these cases to get right down to scientific details.

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No need for irrelevant discussion of all the nuts which exist in California on this problem, but in many places.

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The next main point in here is one that's a central point and we don't have to argue at all about this.

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There are in that near sample of 90.

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If you look in the index under sightings comma unexplained, there are 27 listed there.

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There are five others that aren't even listed in the index that are considered to be unexplained.

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That's a third of the sample.

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And some of these cases knocked your eye out like anything in the wrap case and this Texas B-47 case.

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Among the unexplained cases are some really, really significant cases, kind of the Paris subject, which is one that works well for believing me.

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I mean, never have I seen the scientific report the contents of which has so little match with the summary recommendations made by the investigator.

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Now, this is very interesting because there is no evidence that anybody on the project besides Condon saw the summary recommendations.

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Apparently it's signed by Condon and the there's no indication yet that anybody else saw that.

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That's not I can't turn up around and say that nobody did.

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But so far it appears to be just kind of the user of the first person pearl.

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It's as we read, but it sounds like everybody.

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And it is on the third kind of now that could easily lead us off into a very pertinent part of the total problem.

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How could this happen?

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What is the history of this unusual project?

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If you want to get some insights into that, I reiterate the recommendation.

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Dr. J. Heineck, who has for 19 years been the Air Force Scientific Consultant on UFOs and only in the last two of those switched his position from rather casual.

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Playing down with the problem to very real concern.

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He's not as far out on this problem as I am, but definitely urging a greatly increased study.

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I have comment was when people asked him about reading the common report, he is going to say, and I quote him, to understand the common report.

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You have to read two books.

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So the common report and the book by Harkins and by a funders and Harkins UFOs.

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Yes, another paperback.

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I don't didn't bring my copy along, but it's the inside story of what went on in that unbelievable project.

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And I claim to you the purchase of a song is Harkins book and the answer to some of the questions that are raised by by this peculiarness that's between common recommendations of the contents.

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13 or 20 really good unexplained in the total of about 32 conceitedly unexplained in the sample of 90.

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And Condon says, nothing here further interest.

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No, no scientific problem.

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Google can be dropped in school.

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So we shouldn't be allowed to read the books just to make sure it's.

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The report does make a final comment does have a few bright spots.

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There is some good work in it, particularly the photographic analysis by Hartman and air section on possible instrumentation design for extended studies is quite business like and well done.

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And one or two other sections that are secondary to the main problem are reasonably done and some of the case investigations met applause, but well received.

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OK, that's not a quick run down.

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I've now I've not told you where I stand with respect to the problem.

175
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:55,000
You've got my hope or impression that I take the problem very seriously and I have given you summary comments at least so far about the kind of rejections I hold with respect to the common report.

176
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Now, let's let's let's get into some cases.

177
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Let me just bring one close to home.

178
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000
Let's look at that lettering case.

179
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,000
So much to be said here.

180
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:12,000
And it's more than you can cover in 45 minutes.

181
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:20,000
So much to take case after case to discuss the credentials of the witnesses discussed the all possible explanation that takes time.

182
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,000
The case is usually talking about it.

183
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,000
Not to be possible to review it in 20 minutes, but the one doesn't have this kind of time.

184
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:43,000
So I compressed and eliminate some points here now, but then February 4th and 68 in redlands 715 in the evening last year year, what 10 days ago.

185
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Person in the residential area up in the north west side of redland heard the noise and a lot of barking of dogs up and down the street and out they went and pretty soon the streets are some different streets were full of people who are looking at an object overhead.

186
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:07,000
The estimates given by many of them started around a few hundred feet out of duty for the object and this later checked by crew triangulation.

187
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:13,000
Some of the witnesses, about 30 witnesses were interviewed by three professors at the University of Redlands.

188
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,000
Dr. Paul Steph was the leader of the group.

189
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:21,000
They got tired after interviewing that many and didn't have to pursue the bro.

190
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000
I've interviewed about six or seven personally myself.

191
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:39,000
These are these persons are saw a bit by the blackboard it's got to about this kind of dislike object with something resembling parts or windows or luminous panels or something around the top and something.

192
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000
Some things that were described.

193
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Absolutely perhaps a lot of people have liked that the bottom of the object is hovering with the time they got outside.

194
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:59,000
No appreciable noise and definitely not helicopter recording many of the other one of the witnesses and police officer and other persons or former Navy.

195
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,000
And a lot of the people saw this thing and some directions and they've been trying to get about standard speed up.

196
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Some people line it up with a telephone pole and that sort of thing to which corner of the house is the guy and signal.

197
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,000
It heard for a minute or two most most famous straight up to about the height.

198
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
More mission was a plane.

199
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:23,000
It's what's straight up to an estimated double height still over this red dyslorea.

200
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
I read again and then what more people are doing.

201
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:32,000
All witnesses agree that it moved in a kind of a dirty fashion to what was estimated about six blocks northeast.

202
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:38,000
I went again and then saw a very high speed out to the north over the general vicinity of the.

203
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
The catch with the radar nobody saw them radar.

204
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Unfortunately, March is across the hills and it was too low to be in the radar.

205
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:52,000
A little pattern from March and importantly no radar functioning at Martin that night.

206
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,000
They are the 25 witnesses.

207
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,000
Urban area.

208
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Fighting machine like if there's not this hard to use word machine like craft like those are very good word but structure.

209
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,000
That's the the common analogy of this.

210
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,000
The airport investigation was narrow.

211
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:21,000
The past interest was a running story and the red and black heroes is fighting in an American city.

212
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:29,000
We have a lot of witnesses and the local papers and this problem has grown so far down here that that's what we've got.

213
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
We have a running start.

214
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,000
That's got it.

215
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,000
They asked the paper to put a piece of requesting for the witnesses.

216
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:43,000
They got about six inches of six colleges and it was looked at by the Air Force.

217
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:49,000
They claim finding it was a light plane that was landing and the Redmond University of Texas check.

218
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:57,000
They found that the only plane that was landing at that time had landed by the time was well pinned down for television programming reasons.

219
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,000
A lot of people who what program they were stepping out from when they saw this and these planes had landed.

220
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,000
They also came from the wrong side of town yet that was the extent of the Air Force investigation.

221
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Colorado sent that air out and did gather material on it yet that case investigated within the common project occurring within the active light of the project.

222
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,000
A significant case is not to be found in the common report.

223
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,000
Why not?

224
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:29,000
Why should there be a report on a predicted landing of a new.

225
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,000
This is a case in the common report case 43 or something.

226
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Somebody in California had had on what time we fire like California.

227
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:46,000
Someone out here contacted Conan said he was in telepathic communications with the spaceman and a landing would be made on the 11 o'clock.

228
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000
April 15th of 67.

229
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:50,000
Not a real shot.

230
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,000
Slats and I would have been in a hurry to hang the phone up.

231
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,000
Conan said an investigator up there and that's a case that's discussed with the.

232
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Why are the Redmond when you talk about nets like that?

233
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
Okay.

234
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Now let's take another case that's not in there.

235
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000
A famous case.

236
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000
One of the classic cases.

237
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,000
A significant case.

238
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:14,000
In case scientifically very interesting and represented.

239
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:20,000
The whole class of places involved in car stopping.

240
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:25,000
This is level in Texas November 2nd of 57.

241
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Headline news.

242
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:34,000
And I thought the two or three days half life of journalistic interest and the Air Force said it was all 18 wedding missions.

243
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,000
It was forgotten like the rest.

244
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:45,000
Nine vehicles suffered engine failure and lights out when they came here or were passed by.

245
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,000
One or more.

246
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:58,000
It's not clear whether this is one thing going around or several objects generally described as 100 to 200 feet long growing red or blueish red in this.

247
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000
Panhandle town of Texas.

248
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:08,000
We're in about a 10 mile radius of the town and we've been about an hour and a half period near midnight November 2nd and 3rd of 1957.

249
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Okay.

250
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000
There's one of the classic cases.

251
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
I urge the common report to check the night cap.

252
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,000
Put it on its list on the common report to common committee.

253
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
I asked for suggested cases.

254
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,000
They had it on their list.

255
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,000
I had it in mind.

256
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
They in fact investigated.

257
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:35,000
One of the two men that come and fired in that interesting blow up of which I very much in the middle back in February of last year for further details.

258
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,000
He was on this Arkans book.

259
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
Saunders is the other one who's fired.

260
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,000
That's her psychology.

261
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Dr. Levine, an electrical engineer began to do what he was still before his fire was doing investigation on level and got from Texas A&M all the way to our film for that day and confirmed with that radar film.

262
00:31:52,000 --> 00:32:01,000
What I had already found by a separate meteorological analysis that wasn't any sign of thunderstorm activity anywhere in that area.

263
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,000
And I wish I had slides.

264
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:18,000
One of the slides I would have showed you was the same map that I showed general Cookshank up with light Patterson to get across the general Cookshank who's on top of the book and that here's the trouble for the other projects in the foreign technology division.

265
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,000
He's no longer there now, by the way.

266
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:39,000
The interesting about this water map, gentlemen, is that here is this famous case, which is explained as ball lightning from the severe thunderstorm activity and wet ignitions, flooding out these nine cars, each of which had no trouble at all starting its wet ignition system right after the glowing object with the ball lightning left.

267
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,000
But you look at the weather map, great big high pushed down over Texas.

268
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Not a ghost of a chance.

269
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,000
So any lightning activity or any to look at this weather map to see it.

270
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,000
I looked at that I was quite stunned ever.

271
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:56,000
This was very early in the game when I was checking the case out in 1966.

272
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:03,000
And I mean, you went to the Texas weather data and our files at the Institute and no rain anywhere level in that night.

273
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,000
No thunderstorm activity.

274
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,000
Big high.

275
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,000
And yet the efforts United States Air Force said they're still the same.

276
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000
Letting missions and ball lightning.

277
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,000
Normal name.

278
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Now we're the project control common fire gun got an anti Texas and a radar for no radar echoes anywhere in the area.

279
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,000
That case significant classic case, not in the coming report.

280
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Why not?

281
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,000
Why it's sparing.

282
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,000
Super coming pages.

283
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000
As it was for bad.

284
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
Analyzing the detail a folks brand.

285
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,000
First.

286
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,000
You know, 1967.

287
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,000
When they don't talk about London.

288
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,000
Very, very.

289
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
I would say.

290
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Let's go.

291
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Let's go.

292
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,000
I could discuss more.

293
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,000
Let's get on to some examples of week argumentation.

294
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000
An interesting case.

295
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,000
There are some classic cases.

296
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Some of the real problems in there and the section done by Gordon there.

297
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,000
But that's where the bulk of the bad argumentation line is in there.

298
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000
Three chapter five.

299
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,000
One piece of 10 inches argumentation after another.

300
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:20,000
The number of probably parents appears to be seems to be that you find in that section ought to be all from tale to tale and the phone or a kite over the builder or something like that.

301
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
The B.C.

302
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000
The case of June 20.

303
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
Night 1954.

304
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,000
Classic case.

305
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,000
It occurred near Southern Islands.

306
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
In St. Lawrence.

307
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,000
B.C. did a documentary on UFOs some months ago.

308
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
And I just took three days ago.

309
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Finally got the tape of the audio of that.

310
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,000
And the one reason I wanted to get the audio was the producer.

311
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Located.

312
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,000
James hard.

313
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,000
James hard.

314
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000
I'm not a star.

315
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,000
I have interviewed him.

316
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,000
So this was the next best thing to getting to London interviewing myself.

317
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,000
I'm trying to get further information by mail.

318
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,000
Captain hard.

319
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,000
Very interesting case.

320
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,000
And I just mentioned that Captain Howard.

321
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
My only been sent to Siberia.

322
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,000
Seeing the UFO.

323
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:19,000
The B.C. people told me a year ago that when the Concord is blown, you might put an if the counter for this phone.

324
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
That will be Captain Howard.

325
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,000
That speech was for the credentials this pilot had.

326
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,000
James hard.

327
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,000
And find the cockpit crew.

328
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Saw the objects independently of the passengers.

329
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:40,000
The spiritist finally was asked by the passengers to go ask the flight deck people along one of the lines.

330
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,000
And when she came in the door, she found all the flight deck people in there and knows it was blown to the window.

331
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,000
Looking at one of our objects and six objects.

332
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:53,000
That had according to description, they're out of the cops of the deck of Sturdy Q below.

333
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000
They were 19,000 feet.

334
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:01,000
We're about 300 knots north or eastbound to England from from New York.

335
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Thank you.

336
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:14,000
They seem to be these objects bring it out of the clouds and they climbed up to the outskirts and then the small objects which were dark and seem to be sort of very long.

337
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:21,000
Get it back and forth and the main thing to odd formation, sometimes we'll all have some friends above and below of this big object.

338
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:31,000
And the big object appeared to change shape during the eight and it's many miles that it takes the center cruiser towards do stay.

339
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:38,000
I have to give you all the tales and call for a fighter and the the objects left just before the 86 came out.

340
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:45,000
The the the the the location of the store.

341
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,000
I guess they're a lot of kids now.

342
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:53,000
I think but see what on the program and I had the pleasure of hearing directly.

343
00:36:53,000 --> 00:37:01,000
That is the direct interview just a couple of weeks ago and now trying to get further into the hottest, hottest time in his group explain this.

344
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,000
It's very interesting to find the.

345
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,000
Copy it out.

346
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,000
But he's probably one thing or another.

347
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:20,000
But in the midst of looking for the final answer, the Alice suggests the main distance that occurs.

348
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,000
And looking for some explanation of the optical.

349
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,000
They think are involved.

350
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:35,000
The animal is perhaps the shock wave created the optical effects.

351
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,000
Well, that's the the dispensary.

352
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,000
That goes on to the optical effect.

353
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,000
The horizon.

354
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:53,000
You can go on a discussion and I have just finished computing the dip angle for the horizon from any of them.

355
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:59,000
I hate arbitrary real or cloud produced horizons.

356
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:09,000
It is very simple computation and physical optics and the pilot emphasized that the object is first thing below and estimated a few miles away.

357
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,000
We were very tender about that.

358
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,000
And evidently, this is why I'm writing to Howard and what were those angles to that opportunity.

359
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,000
There's anything more than about half a degree below the horizon.

360
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:28,000
In a fair, not a chance of refraction producing this for quite definite optical reason.

361
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Well, that's what the leader is apparently not good at the closing seconds.

362
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,000
It is just charming.

363
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:49,000
This unusual sighting should therefore be assigned by reading the government report to the category of some almost certainly natural phenomenon, which is so rare that it apparently has never been reported before or since.

364
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:56,000
You can't explain where those are.

365
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,000
I know somebody who's been doing that for 20 years.

366
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,000
You might say that's no better than what we were getting out of the book.

367
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:16,000
If we can't get a scientific group that will improve on the project, we will probably have for many years consisted of a secretary of science and law.

368
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:26,000
Typically a major sometimes is a captain. The major recently made the tenant kind of and just outrageous explanations coming out of the book.

369
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,000
And many of these in this report are not very much very much better.

370
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,000
Well, I could I could cite many more examples of regard.

371
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,000
You know, that's a lot in the summer, 10 to 52.

372
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:48,000
This is the case that I was but I expressed in my testimony before the House Committee on Science and Astronautics in July.

373
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,000
By the way, you haven't seen that.

374
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,000
You have to get it involved in that.

375
00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:06,000
I think it was in the air about 15 minutes trying to close with this large object with two red lights coming out of windows.

376
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,000
This is the phrase you find in the window.

377
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,000
I think it's a very good idea to have the window in close but some kind of opening.

378
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,000
I see the F-94.

379
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,000
They had to wrap the F-94 up tight to avoid closing on it.

380
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:30,000
It would course the motions to describe in the report and very very radical overs 15 minutes and do by red lights.

381
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,000
How do they explain that?

382
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:40,000
I want to try to read you to the bottom but it says this is typical of the appearance of a pilot balloon or a leather balloon when seen by an experienced personnel.

383
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,000
The pilot is bigger than any known aircraft.

384
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,000
They spent 15 minutes and that's 94 trying to close with leather balloon.

385
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Two red lights.

386
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:58,000
So that's that is that's an example of an Air Force radar station in the middle of a vibe January 26th of 1952.

387
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:00,000
The radar is right.

388
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,000
It was around for a couple of minutes.

389
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,000
The details of the first step in the air with my finger.

390
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:13,000
The first thing is a light and the tech radar unknown about 10 miles away.

391
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
It went through our search together.

392
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Very involved.

393
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,000
How about 10 miles?

394
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,000
I think it was 18 miles west then north without talking miles and then down this way.

395
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,000
It was very close.

396
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,000
10 miles away naked eye and a good song radar.

397
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,000
I could explain as a pilot balloon again.

398
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:37,000
Now, the only thing that has any radar construction upon a pilot balloon is one nighttime observation.

399
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,000
There's a video.

400
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,000
I didn't want to go to the other.

401
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,000
I was there.

402
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,000
It's all wrapped up.

403
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,000
The word is hang on string and it's the one candle car light and it's got some money.

404
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,000
And it's four hours.

405
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Not the 510 square centimeters of radar cross section at the most number of nights by radar standards.

406
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:06,000
And this thing to be seen is a naked eye and then said metric calculation for about 10,000 feet about two miles.

407
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:13,000
And the funny is the funny path that I went through in the air.

408
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,000
This is recorded in the counter report.

409
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000
This is explained as the limit mode.

410
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:24,000
I know which to make the explanation go.

411
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,000
They must have been one hour late because it's about an hour and a half after standard time.

412
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:35,000
They have to say that it developed late because here it is down at estimated 2000.

413
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,000
You about rain and they could see it.

414
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,000
And this is correct.

415
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:44,000
I checked the file that it went to 15,000 feet and then burst.

416
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,000
But they said in the first must have gotten leaking came down.

417
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Then they said there was a level scale.

418
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:52,000
No meteorologist.

419
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,000
I mean, all that.

420
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,000
I don't think the counting report does.

421
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,000
That's a scale.

422
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,000
Well, you look at the other map, you know, the people who doesn't scale low or very late.

423
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,000
I want to have a little scale low.

424
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Make a parallel that is about to leak and is an hour and a half late to go through this kind of a little bit.

425
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:18,000
But kind of a pilot like you can be 10 miles away and have radar cross section to show up at some 20 miles.

426
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Just go.

427
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,000
I got the five and five was not late.

428
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,000
The pilot was at least a little on time versus 15,000 feet.

429
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,000
And that explanation is just money.

430
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,000
That's typical of the species or even taking a little bar in the county board.

431
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,000
And I would only be beginning.

432
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,000
But let me let me continue with the employer.

433
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Let's I could try getting complete case reporting.

434
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,000
But.

435
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:49,000
And the case is, well, are you the only notion of what's really involved in the case?

436
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,000
And let me let me tie two things together by telling you a really interesting report.

437
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,000
I've never heard of it before.

438
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,000
But I never saw the details.

439
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,000
I read before I got my copy of the common report.

440
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
It also says incomplete case reporting.

441
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:08,000
And it also says unexplained.

442
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:13,000
In the common report that is cases which are considered today unexplained.

443
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:24,000
And which Dr. Collins turns away and say, let's forget about all this nonsense and use cool kids ought not get credit for reading about anything like this.

444
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:32,000
Now, this is a B 47 over the Louisiana, Texas area, September 19th of 1957.

445
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,000
They come in the park, interviewed spirit a crew.

446
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:41,000
I have interviewed all six of the crew since getting the time report.

447
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,000
I've taken the building to find some of these people.

448
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:50,000
One of them was a lot but one just got back from Vietnam is up at Vanberg to our auto service.

449
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000
One is retired and up in Spokane.

450
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:59,000
I look at it all six, six because it was not before the seven with the ECM gear board and that figures largely in this instance.

451
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,000
The ECM gear of our before the seven.

452
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:08,000
You get the impression believing this is case five, case five and the kind of work I think you might agree.

453
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:14,000
First, you get the impression all of her around Fort Worth, maybe let me interject a comment.

454
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:20,000
So the 59 name, name cases, they don't give date, location or names of witnesses.

455
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Very bothersome to check the scientific material where the principal record doesn't give your name is date or locations above all of your time to check whether they know how you've been doing.

456
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:43,000
It happens that many of these cases are already know about but some might still have a pin down and you would never know from this particular discussion what a real case this is.

457
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,000
So that really began down there.

458
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,000
The recipient really ended up in Oklahoma.

459
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:53,000
The UFO was witness 47 for a distance of over 600 miles and over an hour.

460
00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:00,000
The general impression of UFOs are flashes of light that people see negative after images or something like that.

461
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,000
You can't expect them to be sure.

462
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,000
This involves a lot of detail.

463
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:13,000
The ECM operator on number two radar, among others, maybe in the floor is now at Austin, of course, based on the service.

464
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:26,000
There's a present as they came off the gulf northbound over at Gulfwark to get a signal of 2800 megacycles from an apparent source on the starboard tail of the thing.

465
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:33,000
There's a blot over the gulf which wasn't quite obvious to me right, but anyway, you do get the noise.

466
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,000
They build the one sort of gulf.

467
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,000
So it's a pretty valid radar signal coming in.

468
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
It was post-clarer when I asked them.

469
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:49,000
They said yes, it had even a PRF that was like a valid R and it had a little bit of like a sweet frequency to it.

470
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,000
So it's like a valid ground signal.

471
00:46:52,000 --> 00:47:03,000
But on his monitor, now, my mind is, in this part of the report, I was in the discussion, I am not talking, I am not talking about an airborne radar set.

472
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,000
The following signal is often unknown.

473
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:13,000
I am talking about a passive receiver, CM-DEAR, that is designed to listen to the enemy radar, get bearings on it, and prepare the jam.

474
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,000
You get the picture.

475
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,000
This passive reception of a signal comes from source.

476
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
That's what I'm going to be talking about.

477
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,000
So much of this account.

478
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Very, very problem as you will sense.

479
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:28,000
The thing that began to play in the course of the victory was not that it was off the gulf,

480
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,000
but the tip on the start began to move up, up, up, down, down, down, down.

481
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:39,000
Now, you have nothing to be at, nothing to direction on this particular, you don't know range, you know, sort of, be out to three.

482
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:49,000
But it moved up as if there were a ground radar set moving faster than the B-47, which was at 35,000 during 6 for about 550 knots.

483
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,000
And this course seemed to be going up slowly.

484
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,000
You got me?

485
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Now, that could be a noise signal.

486
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,000
But it went around.

487
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:04,000
And it could be that it could be that it was really moving down, but he had a hundred and eighty degree ambiguity and it was painting 180.

488
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Everything do happen is wrong.

489
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,000
The radar is full of serious, solid registers of human eyes.

490
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,000
Then we had a course.

491
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,000
The guy in 47 came down the other side.

492
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,000
He's maybe ruled out the hundred and eighty degree ambiguity.

493
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:24,000
Macquarie said he was so bothered by this that he didn't, he thought it must be something in the step that they haven't worked in the other stations yet.

494
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,000
And he's just saying he's a cosmic true just during this part of the run.

495
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,000
I didn't say anything to the other lead that we all have already said about.

496
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,000
That was the one I've talked to.

497
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:39,000
And probably what has never been mentioned that he would have forgotten had except.

498
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:43,000
They went to Jackson and headed the west over Jackson.

499
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,000
The whole thing is at 35,000 until the very end.

500
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:52,000
And starting after heading west towards Fort Worth, this was about 47 out of Forbes, at first base.

501
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
They were going to Fort Worth and north to Fort Worth in Kansas.

502
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:05,000
The next thing really began to warm up when the pilot, the co-face suddenly saw coming in on a near collision course, 11 o'clock do-in.

503
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,000
A bright light was lit to him.

504
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,000
He said, momentarily, it looked to him like landing lights with a jet.

505
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:15,000
And he got on the intercom and he was, you know, worried about you being prepared for something.

506
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,000
He looked at you and thought he was going to have to create a vein.

507
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:27,000
But before anything else could occur, this light, which is all the way here so far, coming dead in and getting larger suddenly.

508
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:33,000
And he said that Angel Rossi's fire beyond the capability of anything that he knows of went from 11 o'clock to 2 o'clock.

509
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:37,000
It just shot across like that and it burnt out.

510
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,000
And now it's not limitless and not part of it.

511
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,000
It's limitless coming in, wait a little, 2 o'clock and out.

512
00:49:44,000 --> 00:50:02,000
And then Major Collide, the co-pilot began kind of joking about maybe they saw flying saucer on the intercom and the crew back on the number two monitor had been with to turn back to 2,500 megacycles having just been puzzling 10 minutes before or in Mississippi.

513
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:15,000
So, you know, right from the signal from the proctovish, the counter report, all of this, you're not telling the counter report that they began in Gulfport.

514
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,000
There's no comment at all about that part.

515
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:24,000
But now some of this is now in the counter report and if Conner has read the report, he must have seen this next time.

516
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:30,000
So they began to find one thing or another to get rid of this to, you know, to shake it.

517
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,000
Speed variations is going straight at 2 o'clock.

518
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:45,000
They were by then getting into the VCI ground radar coverage of Fort Worth quite well and taste regular to see if they're painting unknown and they were.

519
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,000
So there's no 10 miles on your 10 miles away at your 2 o'clock position.

520
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:56,000
Here's the heaters and the fireball by IFS and the other no IFS.

521
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,000
Okay, now they're not even going to be worried.

522
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,000
Here, the thing has been staying with him.

523
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:15,000
Here in 600 knots flight and the apparent of a ground radar that has been flying with them for some 10 minutes and quite a few miles and it's painting on radar.

524
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,000
So the question is what to do next.

525
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,000
But it was followed by the UFO, you might say.

526
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:30,000
The next thing that happened was before it started to gain the move forward on my scope and the VCI radar and how quite independent because they were hearing per said it's being in the move.

527
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,000
Very non-nivety, non-nivety at this point.

528
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,000
Move forward to bed ahead.

529
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:42,000
Those motions appeared on the number two monitor, LA 6 and 8 ones and GTI painted.

530
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:48,000
So I got bed ahead on to the very bright red light in the 12 o'clock position.

531
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:54,000
The pilot decided to try to pull over it and went to pull along the tower.

532
00:51:54,000 --> 00:52:03,000
But it just stayed at the distance that the ground radar was saying was a little bit more than 10 miles and they couldn't put any plans on it.

533
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,000
All of a sudden it began to veer north, westward.

534
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,000
Again, right now this is just an economy board.

535
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,000
You have the impression that it's a small, something that's curved over the board.

536
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,000
But it went up between Dallas and Fort Worth.

537
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:25,000
They said he got the curse from the FAA to clear all traffic out of the area and he got a power trying to close this thing.

538
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,000
All of a sudden he stopped to stop closure rate.

539
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,000
The VCI radar said it stopped.

540
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,000
Here's the stationary echo.

541
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,000
He was getting the ECM received.

542
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:42,000
They're going red and he didn't know what his altitude was and he passed all over.

543
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,000
He said and it went down.

544
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,000
It went down visually.

545
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:52,000
The ECM signal disappeared from the course monitor and it disappeared on DCI cargo.

546
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,000
All simultaneously.

547
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:59,000
They put the hang into a turn now getting more than casual interested.

548
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:07,000
The case pointed out took about 20 miles to have for the turn at the speed and look back all the time and halfway through the time.

549
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Now it was nearly lost at this moment.

550
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:23,000
All of a sudden on the red light signal appeared on the DCI scope and out of a direction and on the ECM and the DCI radar said it's back on the scope position next.

551
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:33,000
There were questions for the dial which I suppose if anybody knew about this case or maybe he's got some kind of a matter or maybe the court march or something.

552
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:42,000
He elected to die in his V47 headbid and that down to 20,000 and the DCI was telling me they were closing to five miles and all of a sudden it worked out.

553
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,000
This appeared to be DCI ECM signal going.

554
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,000
He was getting low on gas.

555
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:52,000
He used the momentum of the dial to pull back to 25 to head north.

556
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,000
Better get to paying more and here again you don't get this from the county report.

557
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:05,000
They say not having lost their in the local area and the people on DCI and they got it and they set it on your tail and found a thing.

558
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,000
The court got ECM signal again.

559
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:13,000
It was not very good because in the 47 you can't see very well if any of the lawyer on the evidence was now.

560
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,000
He estimated when he died that it was somewhere near 15,000 deep burning.

561
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,000
He had got the IHI indications off the ground.

562
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,000
There was no evidence that that doesn't make sense to history.

563
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,000
It turns out that ABC interrogated them.

564
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,000
There was no evidence in the book.

565
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,000
They found out about a record in pronunciation.

566
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:40,000
So it went off scope and disappeared when they were approaching Oklahoma City.

567
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,000
Well that's an unexplained case in the county.

568
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,000
It's taken me 15 minutes to tell you that.

569
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,000
That's a lot of time by our standards.

570
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,000
But I hope you can sense that maybe you ought to have a look at this report too.

571
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:59,000
Then you ought to read the Lincoln and East End of the Case which involves ground radar, airborne radar, ground visual, airborne visual.

572
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:02,000
And lasted for five or six hours and lost four unknowns.

573
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,000
It's an unexplained economy report.

574
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,000
The finance secretary is still saying something sweet about this.

575
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:15,000
Read about the case study in the county before Newtok and New York where three different air crews, Albany Control Tower and Boston radar,

576
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:22,000
are involved in the siting of an object which was between, it was a Mohawk airline, DC-3.

577
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,000
This was a May of 55.

578
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:29,000
And a DC-3 crew saw the object between them and the other castes.

579
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,000
It was about $4,000 deep.

580
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,000
There's another one of here of the range of a few hundred feet.

581
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:41,000
They estimated to be about 150 feet across and it looks like no wings nor a tail.

582
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,000
Greenish lights and some sort of daytime observation.

583
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:49,000
Greenish lights emanating and going past the governmental very high speed.

584
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,000
One is later two other crews from the Bay of Seething.

585
00:55:52,000 --> 00:56:00,000
Albany Control Tower is going by on Victor 5 heading east and Boston radar is coming and going out on Victor 5 pass up to sea.

586
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,000
I'm not explaining to you in the county.

587
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,000
Well, I could do it.

588
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:09,000
You take me 30 minutes to give you a summary of the Beverly Massachusets case.

589
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,000
I've interviewed 10 witnesses in this case.

590
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,000
The overarching parts of that case are kind of sub-draft.

591
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,000
They're admitted to be unexplained in the report.

592
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,000
They're involved, full frame-tracking by five adults, two police officers.

593
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:27,000
The Miller-Gill Georgia case that I was in there, it's not explained.

594
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,000
I'm talking to Chief Police Miller-Gill Georgia and Lieutenant Beverly Mutter.

595
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,000
I could talk to them and discuss these.

596
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:42,000
But there are some very interesting unexplained which are essentially ignored in the recommendations that the Academy has seconded.

597
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,000
I don't think they read these.

598
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:50,000
I think if one more of those cases happens all too often and I am being a member of one Academy panel,

599
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,000
I'm not entirely talking through my hat.

600
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,000
This one is the way things can go.

601
00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:00,000
You might test the previous panel who would do a lot more homework than they sometimes do.

602
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:06,000
But I'm afraid that the fact that one of these 11 members of the panel had any previous contact with the UFO problem,

603
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,000
and it's dominated for what is most about four weeks,

604
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:15,000
and they only had one meeting together and two meetings together, and here we'd like to go.

605
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:18,000
I'm afraid it's one of those things that happens every once in a while.

606
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,000
All of our panel, they're always nothing to us, and the confusion is self-evident.

607
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,000
We'll put our stamp on it.

608
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:26,000
Ed Conn certainly has done a good job on this one.

609
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,000
There's a lot of pages here and a lot of diagrams,

610
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,000
and you can try to see if there's any home read the case or two.

611
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,000
And I think, well, I don't think we'll forget about that one.

612
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:40,000
I'm afraid, as I said, that there's a chicken that's going to be roasting in Washington

613
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,000
when the stories are cleared up on this one.

614
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,000
Well, to rewind that then,

615
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,000
you've heard me say that I think it's $500,000 the worst advice the Air Force has gotten yet.

616
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:58,000
And I begin to temper my previous proceedings of Air Force mishandling.

617
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,000
I don't change them, but I temper them.

618
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:06,000
I begin to sense something very clear to me before it comes along kind of subtle in my mind.

619
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:11,000
All this bad advice, and I reached this decision before I had the color report,

620
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:21,000
is as undoubtedly played a major factor in making the Air Force gloss over some of these past-sitting cases.

621
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:27,000
No matter what, there are not really as many Navy cases as Air Force cases,

622
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:33,000
and I don't think the Navy, well, I guess maybe the number in them,

623
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,000
the Navy is not in as much trouble.

624
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,000
There's a little bit of trouble on this.

625
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,000
They don't know it either.

626
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,000
The Air Force doesn't know it either.

627
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,000
But I'm not really a problem with the Air Force again.

628
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:48,000
This one is just kind of funny, and there's maybe people who can smile at this one anyhow.

629
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,000
This has been known for a while.

630
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,000
I didn't check it for a long time, but I was asked by Bob Lawley,

631
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:58,000
the one who really ran the project up there, unfortunately,

632
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:03,000
and so far, what I felt were Air Force obfuscations.

633
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:07,000
That is one way or another, with all of this information,

634
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,000
or confusing information, or something like that,

635
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
was involved in a seemingly interesting case.

636
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,000
Connors groups had on-trade check pieces.

637
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,000
They could have gone anywhere.

638
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,000
They had an opportunity to have unprecedented,

639
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:24,000
and I was the one who wanted to see them check pieces like that,

640
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,000
or the Red Bluff case, or the Oxford, I think, 57th case,

641
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,000
and a dozen others that I sent them,

642
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:35,000
a very interesting case that Ed was about to talk about tonight.

643
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:39,000
But this one, I sent in particular on,

644
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,000
there was a pretty much by the time I found it with Bob and then Bob Lawley,

645
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,000
he said, well, no, I said, after all,

646
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Rhode Island is a long ways away.

647
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:50,000
But my color on that one is that it wasn't any farther,

648
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:53,000
or well, the perfection wasn't any farther than my telephone,

649
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,000
and I talked to the people involved in this,

650
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,000
but I then located one of the enlisted men,

651
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:03,000
there were two pieces, and enlisted radar control on,

652
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,000
this was a nighttime radar case.

653
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,000
It doesn't involve any of these,

654
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,000
and it is not in that sense a terribly serious,

655
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:11,000
the radar middle piece to be put,

656
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,000
but this is a moving print.

657
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:15,000
They had been working aircraft,

658
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,000
nothing wrong with the set before, after,

659
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,000
worked landing both before and after.

660
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,000
There was also a check body,

661
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:25,000
one of the technicians right away when this thing occurred,

662
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,000
and more recently, he put in a long set,

663
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
he's a rather experienced man,

664
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,000
10 and 11 years experienced at the chiefs

665
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,000
and the enlisted men in such care,

666
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,000
or had their couple of years.

667
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,000
The paper, the paper was the one he saw first,

668
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,000
you can see when the first one came on the scope,

669
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,000
he was flabbergasted,

670
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,000
turning at high speed out of the southeast,

671
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:48,000
he made rough complications,

672
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,000
a series of blitzes,

673
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,000
and they figured out to be around 5,000 miles an hour.

674
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,000
It came in the southeast to about 10 or 15 miles range,

675
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,000
and went back out on a slightly different avenue.

676
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,000
And when the next thing came on at high speed,

677
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,000
yelling, and the other two men came over

678
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,000
and looked over their shoulder.

679
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,000
The next thing came in from a different avenue,

680
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,000
which is significant,

681
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:10,000
and came in right into a different distance

682
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,000
and went back on a different avenue,

683
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,000
it was northeast,

684
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,000
and then a third, in fact,

685
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,000
appeared on this same scope,

686
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,000
coming across on a seat-camp,

687
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,000
not radio, not even a proxy radio.

688
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,000
That's a funny collection of noise in any event.

689
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,000
There wasn't just a person who looked like

690
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:31,000
anyone was speaking or if they were into whatever.

691
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:33,000
And that characteristic of the chronic noise,

692
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,000
they handled all the size,

693
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,000
it was just a good strong echo,

694
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,000
and they compared it to a mobile engine,

695
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,000
maybe a mobile engine,

696
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,000
a mobile power plant, which of course has good cross-section,

697
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,000
a big one, and a very high speed,

698
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,000
and that took a little bit of noise.

699
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,000
Well, the commander of the first court,

700
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,000
he was now in Spain,

701
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,000
made a mistake of releasing this for the other papers.

702
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,000
And it was a few inches in the wild watching the papers.

703
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Well, the mistake was,

704
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,000
he was forgetting Air Force Regulation 200-2,

705
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,000
which had been on the books for many years,

706
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:09,000
and required all services to report

707
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,000
any unidentified true-project rubble.

708
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,000
And that's where they all got buried.

709
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,000
And it's been the target of many critics to say,

710
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,000
that's public conspiracy.

711
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:19,000
I don't think public conspiracy,

712
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:21,000
just the Air Force and the weather planning handle

713
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,000
was saying and avoiding more bobbling than they already had

714
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,000
in the morning war.

715
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,000
No, that's what's happened.

716
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,000
He got her out and he couldn't walk.

717
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,000
Because the Marine Corps came out,

718
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,000
they just had to release it and went to the PIO.

719
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,000
Sonska, who had some interest in the oil,

720
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,000
wrote a letter to my captain,

721
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,000
who was in Washington, the Independent Group,

722
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,000
and mail this.

723
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,000
It was in the mail bag,

724
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:46,000
and it would have gone out.

725
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,000
But a colonel,

726
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,000
a colleague from Pentagon,

727
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,000
got on the phone when he read this in the paper

728
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,000
and started tearing out the commander

729
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,000
for having violated 200-2 and reaching this information.

730
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,000
And this is the letter the commander didn't tell much for.

731
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,000
And then somebody told him,

732
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:03,000
it's a good thing that he sent this,

733
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,000
just in the letter to the Air Force group about this.

734
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,000
And he got subspeyan and made him get out of the mail bag

735
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:08,000
and unfortunately,

736
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:10,000
the commander, or what did he say?

737
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:11,000
He said that,

738
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,000
it hadn't gone out.

739
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,000
He retrieved the letter from the mail bag,

740
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,000
tore it up.

741
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,000
Not in the end of it.

742
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,000
But the Pentagon,

743
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:20,000
the Air Force, said that

744
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,000
they had sent a letter to the police

745
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:24,000
about five days later and said

746
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,000
that no visit to the production,

747
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,000
no checking of the set,

748
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,000
no investigation into the prevention of these,

749
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,000
the two teams from the list men,

750
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:34,000
said that an experienced operator

751
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:36,000
in a malfunctioning set had been responsible

752
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,000
for this under-identified.

753
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,000
But that made the commander mad.

754
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,000
And he got subspept,

755
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:42,000
got all the subspeeds,

756
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:43,000
and said,

757
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:44,000
go and write that letter.

758
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,000
And that's how I got the nightcap.

759
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:46,000
That's how I heard about it.

760
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,000
That's how I located the subspeed

761
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,000
in Albuquerque.

762
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,000
He was on,

763
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:51,000
there's a way to Vietnam.

764
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,000
And that's how I got some of the insiders to go.

765
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,000
Good morning.

766
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,000
This is a case I wanted to call out about the set,

767
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,000
but Bobby all said,

768
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,000
the lowdown is too far away.

769
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,000
You have my sentiments.

770
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:11,000
I believe the problem is a problem of high order

771
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:13,000
scientific importance.

772
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:16,000
After two years and five hundred witnesses,

773
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,000
I cannot ignore the extraterrestrial hypothesis

774
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,000
which seems so at night,

775
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,000
which seems so at birth,

776
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,000
for reasons that we could now take an hour to discuss,

777
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,000
all the reasons that cannot be used over as long as I do.

778
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:35,000
But, but the dealing here was such a large volume

779
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:39,000
of evidence from frequently extremely credible witnesses

780
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,000
of things that are way beyond the state of the art.

781
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,000
Performance characteristics that are like,

782
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,000
they're already in 1947,

783
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:51,000
so far beyond the present state of the art in 1947,

784
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,000
saying that it's not,

785
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:54,000
it's not,

786
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,000
it's not trust from technology that we're dealing with here.

787
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,000
It's not some Russian test vehicle.

788
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,000
Russians wouldn't be testing a Red Hawk device in Northern

789
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:06,000
Australia or Paris or take the Hollywood case

790
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,000
where people were bumper to bumper

791
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:11,000
looking at the thing over La Brea and the things that I think it was.

792
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,000
In February of 1960,

793
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,000
more American test pilots were going to be following

794
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:19,000
Don Anderson's gas trucks for five miles

795
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,000
near Temple, Oklahoma at bumper height,

796
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,000
not knowing whether that thing is full of gas or not.

797
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,000
You know, you know, that hot test pilot,

798
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,000
they're going to be hovering over three women in

799
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,000
Dublin and Massachusetts and so on.

800
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,000
You could pay out the orderly.

801
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,000
This is not advanced technology at all.

802
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,000
Now, ours, it's not hallucinations.

803
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:43,000
When you talk to credible witnesses and I emphasize,

804
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,000
I haven't begun to tell you about the interesting things here.

805
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,000
It's just unbelievable that this problem has stayed

806
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,000
under down for 20 years.

807
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:54,000
Absolutely unbelievable to me when you look at the evidence,

808
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,000
the quality of the evidence,

809
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,000
and you look at what the cotton report has done.

810
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,000
It just kept 20 years of bad time and nice and done.

811
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,000
It becomes understandable to him,

812
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:04,000
why the general didn't react.

813
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,000
So, I say we've got a problem here with AIAA.

814
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,000
Should be looking at and are, I'm glad to say.

815
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,000
And I am pleased to report sort of off the record

816
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,000
that the OQP and his people are not selling in the towel

817
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,000
just because the Condom Committee has spoken.

818
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:26,000
And I urge you to buy that kind of report and read it for yourself

819
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:31,000
and sign off for yourselves the more scientific,

820
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:38,000
more argumentation that backs up the negative parts

821
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:43,000
and to look for yourself at the also present strong material

822
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,000
that's in that report that is ignored.

823
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:49,000
And then perhaps you'll agree that it would be very desirable

824
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,000
if some new efforts were launched in Washington

825
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:55,000
to get some really independent approach

826
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:59,000
and I could tell you all the negative success I had

827
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:00,000
in trying to do that.

828
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,000
Everybody uses a bunch of nonsense.

829
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Just a bunch of borderline dangleings

830
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,000
and I guess my closing comment should be dangleings or something.

831
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:29,000
Dr. McDonald has time for some questions, if you mind.

832
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:36,000
Dr. Sinclair, thank you for your work in this country,

833
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,000
there must be the same interest generated

834
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,000
in anyone in France where there have been multiple fights.

835
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:46,000
Has there been any technical written approach to collusion

836
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,000
and synthesizing what they've seen in these other countries?

837
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,000
Are there any foreign investigations comparable to the Air Force?

838
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,000
I've got two comments.

839
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,000
I wouldn't say that ours is at all.

840
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:04,000
He said the implication that we have investigated the thing thoroughly,

841
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,000
I differ with both parts.

842
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,000
You don't want to start an argument.

843
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:08,000
I'm loving the difference.

844
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:09,000
Complimenting, right.

845
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,000
Okay, excuse me.

846
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:12,000
The answer is no.

847
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:16,000
There's no evidence of any comparable

848
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:19,000
official investigation anywhere in the world.

849
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:22,000
And as I was telling Jean this morning,

850
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,000
Jacques Velayu has written two old,

851
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:26,000
sorry, good books on the UFO problem,

852
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:30,000
a French man who was in this country for a few years,

853
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,000
and who is associated with many of the persons in France

854
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,000
who have investigated this,

855
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:38,000
and May Michelle, who might have also had exchanges,

856
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,000
told me when I asked him,

857
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:42,000
why didn't you fellows, after a big wave of 1954,

858
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,000
do you know about that wave that's re-fencing,

859
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,000
why didn't you go to the French Air Force

860
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:48,000
and demand a French investigation?

861
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:49,000
Well, we did.

862
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,000
But they said, will the American Air Force, and all its money,

863
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:54,000
spending the next 10 or 15 years in this,

864
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,000
why should we spend French money on it?

865
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:01,000
And I really believe that the Russians,

866
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,000
probably, there are Russian sightings on record,

867
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,000
and I think probably the United States Air Force

868
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,000
has succeeded, not intentionally,

869
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:12,000
as nobody's like at Don't Be Feeling,

870
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:17,000
you know, sort of, well, bonus or side effect,

871
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:18,000
was spilling everybody.

872
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:20,000
You look, for example, at the Australian sightings,

873
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,000
which I have a fair amount of knowledge,

874
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:26,000
the similarity between the RAAF explanations,

875
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,000
RAAF explanations in Australia,

876
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,000
and Blue Book explanations is like,

877
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:32,000
it's just unbelievable,

878
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,000
the same silly explanations

879
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,000
and the same failure to close with the problem

880
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:41,000
that one man who has other intelligence duties does this.

881
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,000
In the Air Ministry in England,

882
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:46,000
persons who I know have found, again,

883
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,000
it's a couple of people who occasionally look

884
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:50,000
into these things and are quite sure.

885
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,000
In the case for the Air Ministry,

886
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,000
explained the sightings by a bunch of coast guardsmen,

887
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:57,000
daytime sightings on objects covering the book,

888
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:01,000
Brixton, has probably reflections of headlights off a cloud,

889
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:04,000
and that that the British coast guard up on their heels.

890
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:08,000
Well, I don't think there is any investigation anywhere,

891
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,000
unless it's very clandestine.

892
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,000
A colleague of mine in one of the West Coast Aerospace firms

893
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,000
tells me that Argentina,

894
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,000
Argentina Air Force, does have some competent people

895
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,000
checking the many Argentine cases,

896
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,000
but I can't speak the first hand.

897
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:28,000
I think the Air Force has misled a lot of people.

898
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,000
I don't know how to write a question.

899
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,000
One more.

900
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:34,000
Are you committed to fast-riding information on this?

901
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,000
No, I have never...

902
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,000
Right.

903
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,000
I have no knowledge of any classified information,

904
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,000
and obviously I've done everything I could

905
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,000
to find out if it existed,

906
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,000
but I want to touch it, you understand my point,

907
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,000
but I've seen others.

908
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:53,000
Since you go to write Patterson,

909
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,000
and to be sure, Project Moodle,

910
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,000
and to be sure,

911
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,000
I've seen other people who have been in the room

912
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,000
about the whole Air Force headquarters thing.

913
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:05,000
Three people is about as big as this,

914
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,000
and the one wall is a big, big, dark old file,

915
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,000
and years and years of fascinating files with it.

916
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,000
It's in a classified building.

917
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,000
You've got to get clearance to get an FTD,

918
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:16,000
because it deals with some hot stuff,

919
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,000
but a reporter can go in there with a good-off much trouble.

920
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,000
You can see any of the cases.

921
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,000
There are some cases where a classified equipment radar

922
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:27,000
is a lot of people who try to get close to that,

923
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:30,000
but without going into a long harangue,

924
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,000
I could discuss a lot of specific points

925
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,000
that to me are strong indications

926
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,000
are not dealing with classified.

927
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,000
I've been in the New England intelligence

928
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:41,000
and have handled the top secret material,

929
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:43,000
and I've talked to plenty of people

930
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,000
who are handling top secret material

931
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:49,000
both before and after my duty in the Navy.

932
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:52,000
And when you're touching on a sensitive subject,

933
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:54,000
people don't keep that from you.

934
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,000
They begin to react in a different way.

935
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:00,000
It's clear you're talking about a classified subject.

936
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,000
I've never, never heard of that anywhere,

937
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:06,000
civilian or military, Navy or Air Force.

938
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,000
No indication.

939
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:10,000
Not at all.

940
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,000
Yes, so many points to take up.

941
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,000
In the counter-report, the question is astronauts.

942
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:20,000
In the counter-report, three of the unidentified

943
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,000
and seated by the committee are

944
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,000
exhibits, Gemini 4,

945
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,000
visual and photographic observation of an unknown,

946
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,000
Berman's Gemini 7,

947
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,000
and Young Conrad's Gemini 11.

948
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,000
I have talked to NASA personnel about this.

949
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,000
NASA concedes.

950
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,000
They have no explanation for these three sightings.

951
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:45,000
Those are conceded unknowns in the counter-report.

952
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:49,000
Again, yet nothing of scientific significance in all this.

953
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,000
I'm a doctor, so you're doing the fact that you haven't been

954
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:56,000
able to tell me the right person or other person is a star.

955
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:58,000
Oh, we're on.

956
01:12:58,000 --> 01:12:59,000
There have been.

957
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:05,000
Oh, that's an old one that is spotted out by the skeptics.

958
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,000
I spoke to a group of astronomers.

959
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:11,000
I won't be very specific about this.

960
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:14,000
The director of the lab,

961
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,000
you're going to figure out where he's going to start,

962
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:22,000
but he made that very same point in a follow-up to my briefing on the problem.

963
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:26,000
And I knew three members of this man's staff,

964
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:28,000
two of whom were in the room, as he said this,

965
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,000
who had, as amateur astronomers, seen.

966
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,000
I looked for the objects that went past,

967
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,000
but said, don't tell anybody about this, you know.

968
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,000
And they were in the room,

969
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:42,000
and Dr. K was asking this question,

970
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:43,000
or will the answer is,

971
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:47,000
I don't know if it's a type of, I just got a report on an unknown of the last cruises

972
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,000
from August 19th to 49th.

973
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:50,000
Don't get me started,

974
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,000
because I really, really often know on this,

975
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,000
how amateur astronomers have seen these.

976
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:56,000
They're like a lot of pilots.

977
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,000
They don't talk about it very much,

978
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,000
but they've seen them, indeed.